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How to talk so kids will learn

Have you ever noticed that sometimes you say something to a child and it seems to get through to them? Other times you say something and they hate you for it, get irritated or shut down. How can we best speak to kids to bring the best out of them? The authors of the book, Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish have a lot of great ideas for this.

How to Talk So Kids Can Learn is the most useful book I have ever read as a teacher. It teaches you how to talk to students and how to listen to them. I have found that as I have used the skills in the book, students have been more open to listening to me, calmer in discussion, more willing to follow instructions and so on. But I know that time is often so short and many will not read it. So the following article is my summary of the ideas in the book, but please know that my preference is for you to read the whole book if you can.

You might not like what you hear…

I will note that teachers can be resistant to the ideas in the book since they seem to go against things that they believe are true. The book is opposed to punishment, reward systems and talking harshly to students. It proposes treating students with respect, speaking to them as you would like to be spoken to, recognising their feelings and seeing things from their point of view. Ideally, according to the book, students will learn how to solve their problems and play out difficult situations using their skills without teacher intervention. I’m sure I won’t be able to convince you of everything in this book but I hope you will take on board some of the ideas and try it out. The skills work, they honestly do and your class and your life will be better for it.

I have separated the sections of the book into the tabs below. The ideas here are mostly written in my own words but all of the ideas come from the book which can be purchased below.


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1. When students' feelings get in the way of learning

When students’ feelings get in the way of learning

Students often express things that we as teachers don’t like to hear. They say things like…

I can’t draw

Science is boring

I hurt my knee at lunch

I don’t know what to write about

What do we do in response? Well, we often just deny what they feel and place pressure on students. We make them feel silly for believing what they believe.

Yes, you can draw, anyone can do it, hurry up or you’ll have to do it at lunch

It is not boring, Science is really interesting and I put a lot of effort into making this an exciting lesson

Your knee looks fine to me, it’s not even swollen

You’ll have to find something to write about or you’ll get a zero for this assignment

Imagine if someone did this to you. What if, at work, you were finding something difficult and you went to your boss and told them, “The unit I have to develop is really challenging and I am not sure where to get started” and they responded, “There’s nothing challenging about it, and you better get it done by Thursday or there’ll be trouble.” How motivated would you feel? What would you prefer that they would say? How about, “Thank you for telling me. You’re right, it’s a tough unit”.

When we come up with a problem, we hope that the person we come to will understand. A great way for them to show that they understand is to reflect back to us by explaining how we feel in our own words. Rather than telling them they are wrong, we just show that we understand. Now this doesn’t solve problems necessarily, but it is our starting place and often once kids know that we understand their feelings, they are happier to get on with whatever it is anyway.

The book lists several poor methods of responding to people when they share their feelings and they are things we all often do. Here is the list (in red I have put how people may respond)

Poor ways of responding to expressed feelings

1. Denial of Feelings – Telling people they are wrong to feel what they feel

“The assignment can’t be as difficult as you are saying.”

“It’s only a scratch on your arm, get over it.”

Why are you telling me how I should feel? You don’t know what it feels like.

2. Philosophical response – Pithy phrases

“That’s life.”

“You win some, you lose some.”

“That’s how life goes sometimes.”

Gee, thanks a lot..

3. Advice

“You didn’t make the debating team? Well, you should write a letter and try to convince them.”

Don’t tell me what to do.

4. Questions

“Why do you think you didn’t make the debating team? Maybe you didn’t prepare enough.”

Wow, thanks a lot… (sarcasm).

5. Defense of the other person

“The teacher must have had good reasons for telling you off so harshly at lunchtime”

You always take every else’s side.

6. Pity

“Oh, you poor thing.”

I’m the worst.

8. Amateur Psychoanalysis

Maybe you are saying your knee is hurt because you were deprived of attention as a child and now seek it out constantly on a subconscious level.

Yeah, that fixes everything… (sarcasm).

 

Helpful ways of responding to expressed feelings

So if those are the bad ways, what are the good ways? The book includes little comic strips that show examples and I have put them below each skill.

1. Put the feelings into words

If the student says they hate the assignment they are doing, you can say “There’s something about it you don’t like?” When they answer, keep going in your attempts to understand where they are coming from.

2. Acknowledge feelings with a word or sound

Sometimes, “Oh?”, “Uh” and “Mmm” are your best friends. Don’t say anything, don’t judge, just acknowledge that you have heard and allow the child to process their thinking aloud.

3. Give in fantasy what you can’t give in reality

This is a weird one but it seems to work. Express the wish of a student in a fantasy, for example, a student is hungry and it is a little while until lunch. You could say “I wish I could turn your book into a sandwich and you could eat the whole thing.” I know it seems silly, but it seems to work. The child feels understood.

4. Accept feelings while stopping unacceptable behaviour

If a student is hitting another because of a dispute over a toy, you could say, “I can tell you are very frustrated about not having the toy but I cannot permit any student to hit another in this class.”

What next?

This is just the starting point. To get to a productive conversation with children, we first need to listen to them and acknowledge their feelings. Once we get the conversation started, we can then start to think about problem-solving.


2. Inviting cooperation from students

Inviting cooperation from students

We spend a lot of time trying to get kids to do things. We often do this by telling them what to do. We have methods to try and get them to do things and they are often ineffective. Here are the methods that generally don’t work and also don’t create a nice place to be for students.

Poor ways of inviting cooperation

1. Blaming

“I can’t believe you forgot your book at home again. What did you think you would write on?”

2. Calling names

“You have to be pretty silly to miss a whole page of questions on the test.”

3. Threatening

“If you don’t start this work straight away, you’ll miss out on your play.”

4. Giving orders

“Stop messing around and stand up straight.”

5. Lecturing and moralising

“It was unkind of you to draw all over Bobby’s book. How would you feel if someone did that to you? Now his parents will need to buy him a new one.”

6. Warning

“If you throw that paper again, there will be trouble.”

7. The teacher playing the martyr

“Every night I go home exhausted because of you and this behaviour.”

8. Comparing

“How come you never can finish this handwriting in time when Sarah gets hers in early?”

9. Sarcasm

(Tim walks in late) “Oh great, glad to see Tim is here, must have had something really important to get to.”

10. Prophesying

“If you don’t start improving in maths, you’ll never be able to get a good job.”

How’s a kid supposed to feel with comments like these? Do they feel like you understand them? Do they feel like you are on their side? Imagine if your boss talked to you like this.

 

How can we do it better? We invite cooperation.

1. Describe the problem

Rather than making accusations of wrongdoing and blaming kids for their mistakes, point out the problem and let kids figure out what to do about it. You’ll be shocked at how well they deal with this.

“There’s paint spilled on this desk”

“I can see a test without a name on it”

2. Give information

Often students are missing key information that would allow them to make the right choice.

“If the lid is left off the marker, it will go hard and won’t work anymore.”

“If you kick a basketball, it can damage it and it can’t be used after that.”

3. Offer a choice

Would you like to start writing your story now? Or have five minutes of thinking time?

4. Say it with a word

Rather than going on and on about something, just say one word.

(Student forgets to write name on paper) “Jack, Name.”

5. Describe what you feel

We can’t argue about feelings. They are just how you feel and you can express yours to students as they can express theirs to you.

When you call out, I feel frustrated.

6. Put it in writing

Write a little note for students in a kind tone to remind them of things.

“Please remember to put your name on the assignment before handing in”

7. Use a funny voice

Some people aren’t going to like this one but it can be highly effective. Rather than scolding students when you see something you don’t like, express your frustration through the use of a funny voice.


3. Why punishment doesn't work and what we can do instead

Why punishment doesn’t work and what you can do instead

Think about how you felt as a kid when you were punished. When asked, most adults say they felt it was unfair, that they wanted to get back at the punisher, and that next time they would figure out a way to do the same thing without getting caught. People claim that punishment teaches, but that doesn’t really seem to be true. So what skills do we have at our disposal?

What can we do instead of punishment?

1. Point out a way to be helpful

“I see you knocked over all the art supplies because of your frustration. It would be helpful if you could pick them up.

2. Express your strong disapproval

I do not like the way you are speaking to another student.”

3. State your expectations

I expect that you will play with others without hitting anyone.”

4. Show how to make amends

After the student destroys another student’s construction work…. “What I’d like to see is you help John to repair his tower.”

5. Offer a choice

If you want to swear, you can do it in your head or use appropriate strong language from the dictionary.

6. Let them experience the consequences of their behaviour

When you speak to me that way, I no longer feel I want to help you.


4. Solving problems together

Solving problems together

There are always problems to overcome in the classroom. Students interrupt, they put in minimum effort, they don’t hand up work on time and much more.

We could get frustrated, we could punish or… we could help students to recognise the problem and come up with ideas of how to solve it. Sound too good to be true? You’d be surprised how clever, creative and proactive students can be when we guide them through the problem-solving process.

I should point out here that any problem that the student has is only because it puts them in conflict with the goals of the teacher, parents or institution. For example, the student might not care if their work is of poor quality or late. The problem is, that you can’t accept this, because you care about them and want them to succeed. But to them, it may feel like you are just against them. So we need to communicate with them that we want to come up with a solution that will work for everyone. Unlike the other skills I have discussed, this is a process that must be done in order.

Steps to follow when supporting a student to solve their problem

Step 1: Listen to the student’s feelings and needs

Teacher: I noticed that your homework isn’t here on time. I guess it is difficult to get your homework in after a big day at school.”

Student: Yeah it is difficult, I just want to relax when I get home.”

Teacher: Yes, I can understand. So you want to put up your feet and chill out for a bit when you get home?”

Student: Yeah exactly.

Step 2: Express your own feelings and needs

Now you get to same your part. Focus on your feelings and beliefs. Don’t blame or make accusations.

Teacher: This school requires that students do homework. I expect that students will do the homework that is assigned to them.

Step 3: Invite suggestions of a solution

Come up with some ideas. It is crucial to write down every idea. Do not object when students write down ideas you cannot accept. I recommend having the student give an idea first. Ideas can be silly and honestly, it is better if some of them are.

Make a list like this:

Student: Make it so I don’t have to do homework

Teacher: You get a snack to eat while you are doing your homework

Student: Make there be less homework

Teacher: You get up earlier to do the homework before school

Student: I spend a certain amount of time doing homework, but if I don’t complete it, I don’t have to keep working.

Step 4: Decide on a solution you both can live with

Take turns crossing out things you can’t live with.

Teacher: all students have to do homework according to the school rules so I can’t excuse you from doing homework.

Student: I don’t think eating a snack is going to help me to do it.

Teacher: What about getting up early?

Student: Well, I don’t mind the sound of that. Everyone will be asleep so there won’t be any distractions and I’ll have the whole afternoon to play.

Teacher: Great. I am happy to send a note home with you to inform your parents about the strategy we are going to try. In a week we’ll review and see how it went.

What we implicitly say to our students with this strategy

Students appreciate it when we let them make contributions. You are going to get so much more buy-in here than if you just tell them what to do. By following this approach you are telling them that you trust and believe in them. This is a great message to send and a learning experience for students. Hopefully next time, they’ll take this approach and apply it themselves and they won’t even need you.


5. Giving praise and criticism

Giving praise and criticism effectively

These are two tools you wield as a teacher and both demean and wound students. They can also build up students and support their future development. So what makes the difference? This advice will hopefully allow you to give effective feedback to students.


Kinds of praise

There are two kinds of praise we are considering here. Evaluative praise and descriptive praise. Evaluative praise makes a value judgement, for example, “You are so great at maths.” Descriptive praise describes what happened, for example, “You got almost all of your answers correct in the addition section of the maths test.” Descriptive praise is almost always more effective than evaluative praise.

Problems with evaluative praise

Students often disagree with evaluative praise. They may be told that they are great at maths, but they know that it is difficult for them. They will tell themselves that the adult is mistaken or just trying to make them feel good.

Evaluative praise promotes a fixed mindset

Students can develop a fixed mindset. If they come to believe they are ‘Good at maths’ and then they perform poorly on a test they will conclude that they are no longer good at maths or that the adult was mistaken.

Evaluative praise deprives the student of the opportunity to value their own work

Students can value their own work if you let them. These evaluations mean much more when they come from themselves (more on this in a moment).

Evaluative praise often seems ingenuine

If you don’t take the time to look at what a student has done and make specific comments it can often come across that you are not giving genuine feedback. Students will doubt what you say. It often seems over the top as well.

Evaluative praise doesn’t help you improve

Just being told you are ‘Good at maths,’ for example, doesn’t help you to improve or grow in the future.

 

Benefits of descriptive praise

Descriptive praise promotes a growth mindset

It focuses on what you can do now and what you have achieved so far. If you got most of your addition questions right on the test, there is now the opportunity to improve and do better on the next test. It isn’t about you but what you were able to achieve at your current level.

Descriptive praise gives students the opportunity to make their own evaluation

This is the most important part. If you tell a student, “Wow, you are so tidy,” they may tell themselves, “You wouldn’t think that if you looked in my tray.” But if you tell them, “I can see that your desk is mostly clear and the items that are on there are well-organised,” they can tell themselves that they have tidied their desk well. They are someone who can tidy.

Descriptive praise comes off as being more genuine

You have to think hard to give descriptive praise. You have to actually look at what the student has done and make observations. It is hard work but it comes off as more genuine because it is.

Descriptive praise helps you improve

When you describe what a student has done, they can notice what is missing. You could describe how they wrote a beginning and middle to their story. They might notice that they didn’t write an end and then take it upon themselves to fix it.

 

Methods of describing

Often we don’t know how to describe things. Here are a couple of approaches to describing.

1. Describe what you can see or hear

“I can see students with their pencils on they paper, writing their stories.”

“I can hear the sound of two students working together to solve a problem.”

2. Describe what you feel

“When you sing that song, I feel like bobbing my head.”

Check out the examples below


What about criticism

We don’t feel good when people criticise us or our work. Students often feel like they don’t want to try again, or that they don’t like the teacher when they or their work is criticised. For this reason, it should be avoided. You can focus on what has been done, the progress that has been made rather than only what hasn’t been done.

6. Freeing a child from playing a role

Freeing a child from playing a role

What are roles?

Children often become stuck in a role at school and at home. They could be the naughty kid, the lazy one, the talkative boy, the poor listener, and so on.

How do students find themselves in a role

Students may behave a certain way and then people make a judgement about them. For example, as a kid, they may have the tendency to try and take charge of activities. People will call them bossy.

Why do roles tend to stick?

The more people expect them to act this way, the more they may as well just do it. The more they are bossy, the more they will get what they want and there isn’t really any benefit to change and no one is expecting them to, so why would they change?

Teachers often tend to treat students differently based on what they expect, even if they don’t intend to do this. If we see the student doing some behaviour that seems to align with their role, then we reinforce it by saying that it is just part of who they are. It’s hard for students to escape these roles and students often are not aware they can change or do not know how to.

Why do we want to free students from roles?

Roles tend to be negative. Having a short attention span, being known as a lier, shy, sneaky or a class clown does not help students in school and will not help them in life. We don’t want students to believe that this is all they can be. We have the opportunity to show them, they can be someone else.

Even if you have a seemly positive role, like being a bright student, this can be crushing if you don’t get a great result in a test. People are complicated, we change and grow and can act differently based on different situations.

So what can we do?

1. Look for opportunities to show the child a new picture of themselves

“Wow! I saw how you were able to raise your hand before contributing to discussions throughout that lesson.”

2. Put the child in a situation whe she can see herself differently

“Jack, can you please take these books back to the library for me. I need to send someone I know I can trust to get the job done.”

3. Let the child overhear you say something positive about her

“In class the other day, Jack put up his hand each time before saying anything in the class.”

4. Model the behaviour you would like to see

“Sorry to interrupt you Jack, I didn’t realise you weren’t finished, please keep going.”

5. Remind the child of her past accomplishments

“I remember last class where you did a really great job following the expectations of the class”

6. State your feelings and/or expectations

“So many people in this class want to have a chance to contribute. I expect that before you speak you’ll raise your hand we can each contribute what we would like to say.”

Conclusion

Freeing students from the roles they play is a wonderful thing and we have the power to help them see that they can be so much more than whatever role they are in. When we do this, we are telling them that we believe in them, that they can change, they can do better. I believe that can only be a good thing.

7. Working together with parents

Working together with parents

Seeing ourselves as part of a team

It is so important that teachers and parents work together. We are a team to support the child and we each play important roles in that team. Often parents and teachers don’t get along, and this is a shame, since our goals are so clearly aligned. How can we modify our communication so that we can recognise ourselves as being on the same side?

1. Start by describing something right

It’s not pleasant to start a meeting with all the negative things you have to share about a student. Parents take these things personally and can easily be offended by this. Extend an olive branch by showing that you know their child, and you don’t think they are all bad or never do anything food.

Don’t say: We’ve got some problems to discuss about Michael’s school work.

Say: I appreciate Michael’s creativity and great ideas for stories.

They think: He really knows my son.

2. Describe what the child needs to do

Don’t focus on what hasn’t been done, focus on what needs to be done. This is a much nicer way to frame things. We can’t fix the past, only the future so focusing on the past makes things feel hopeless.

Don’t say: Michael’s handwriting is a terrible mess.

Say: Michael needs to work on his handwriting so that I can read his amazing stories.

3. Share pertinent information

Teachers often have information that they don’t share with parents. Parents appreciate knowing what is going on in the classroom. Rather than making judgementsor accusations, just provide information. Then the parent can help to formulate a plan.

Don’t Say: His handwriting is so messy, does he practice at home at all?

Say: I have noticed in class that he is capable of writing neatly when he slows down.

They think: I wonder how we could solve that, we could practise writing neatly with a timer to improve speed. Maybe he could have more time to work on his stories, or take them home with him.

4.  Describe what has worked

This is a great place for the parents to suggest their ideas. The teacher can make suggestions about this as well.

Don’t say: I’m all out of ideas.

Say: I have tried giving him longer to write his stories, but unfortunately we just don’t have the class time to get it done. Have you noticed anything at home?

They think: He is trying to help and make things happen at school. He even wants my opinion and wants to work together on finding a solution.

Conclusion

Blame and fault are pointless concepts if our goal is to help a child be the best they can be. We can see ourselves as part of a team. Our goal is to support the child to succeed. We each bring knowledge and skills to contribute to this end. There is no need for animosity between parents and teachers.

The section from the book below says it well:

A. Faber et al., How To Talk So Kids Can Learn, The How To Talk Series (Scribner, 2008), https://books.google.com.au/books?id=KciumlNZ1HQC.

Jake Heading

Creator of GoodTeach and Primary School Classroom Teacher.

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